Dutch bishop: Call God ?Allah? to ease relations

[sup-rbeast]

Why not just point to sexism in the Christian Church, or child molesters in the Catholic Church...those religions are much closer to home and more high profile than any of the other religions you mention...

[Gotch]

Well, here we have it again, being placed in a position to defend the RCC. I don't have a dog in that fight. I feel no more responsibility or guilt due to the actions of the RCC than I do due to the actions of slave owners. That would amount to zero guilt and a little less than zero responsibility.

Sexism is a problem in some highly fundamental Christian churches. It's also a problem in alot of work places and schools, so go figure. Oh course I don't believe any are known for forced "female circumcision" which is currently rampant in Egypt, as Paul Harvey commented on today.

Since I don't attend organized church services and would walk out of one as soon as a sexist position is expounded I also feel no guilt or responsibility for that.

I don't deny that it exists, just that telling someone that they will go to hell if they don't wear a dress and forcefully mutilating their bodies do seem to me to be a different degree of
problem?

[sup-rbeast]

I'm not trying to make you defend any religion. I am just showing that it is hard to criticize a faith when the same things exist in the faith of the critic. This whole thing started as a debate over God's name...

[Gotch]

But the same things do not exist!

There is a fundamental difference between preaching that someone is going to hell because they don't believe as you believe and preaching that someone should be stoned to death or have a wall dropped on them because they don't believe as you believe.

Below are all Terrorist acts, as carried out by any group in history which has resulted in 100 deaths or more. Want to compare as to want religions are actually responsible for more deaths?

Those crazy Christians sure are dangerous..... [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

11 Sep 2001 crashing of hijacked planes into World Trade Center, New York City, New York, Pentagon in Alexandria, Virginia, and site in Pennsylvania, USA 2,993 8,900
20 Aug 1978 arson of theater in Abadan, Iran 477 ?
1-3 Sep 2004 hostage taking at school in Beslan, Russia (includes 30 terrorists killed) 366 747
14 Aug 2007 multiple car bombings in Al-Qataniyah and Al-Adnaniyah, Iraq 344 400
23 Jun 1985 mid-air bombing of Air India flight off Ireland, and attempted bombing of second flight in Canada 331 4
12 Mar 1993 15 bombings in Bombay, India 317 1,400
8 Aug 1998 truck bombings of U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Saalam, Tanzania 303 4,954
23 Oct 1983 truck bombings of U.S. Marine and French barracks, Beirut, Lebanon 301 161
22 Sep 1997 attack at Ben Talha, Algeria 277 ?
30 Dec 1997 attack at Ami Moussa, Algeria 272 ?
21 Dec 1988 mid-air bombing of Pan Am flight over Lockerbie, Scotland 270 12
20 Nov-5 Dec 1979 hostage taking at Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia (includes 87 terrorists killed) 240 600
21 Feb 2004 armed attack and arson at refugee camp, Uganda 239 60
29 Aug 1997 attacks at Sidi Moussa and Hais Rais, Algeria 238 ?
31 Oct 1999 intentional crash of Egypt Air flight off Massachusetts, USA, by pilot 217 0
12 Oct 2002 car bombing outside nightclub in Kuta, Indonesia 202 350
23 Nov 2006 multiple car bombings in Baghdad, Iraq 202 250
11 Jul 2006 multiple bombings on commuter trains in Mumbai, India 200 714
18 Apr 2007 multiple bombings in Baghdad, Iraq 193 197
11 Mar 2004 bombings of four trains in Madrid, Spain 191 1,876
2 Mar 2004 multiple suicide bombings at shrines in Kadhimiya and Karbala, Iraq 188 430
14 Sep 2005 multiple suicide bombings and shooting attacks in Baghdad, Iraq 182 679
7 Jul 2007 multiple suicide truck bombings in Armili and area, Iraq 182 270
4 Jan 1998 attacks at Had Chekala, Remka, and Ain Tarik, Algeria 172 ?
19 Sep 1989 mid-air bombing of French UTA flight near Bilma, Niger 171 0
26 Oct 2002 hostage taking and attempted rescue in theater in Moscow, Russia (includes 41 terrorists killed) 170 656
19 Apr 1995 truck bombing of federal building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA 169 675
16 Apr 1925 bombing of cathedral in Sophia, Bulgaria 160 ?
10 Aug 2001 attack on train south of Luanda, Angola 152 146
14 May 1985 armed attack on crowds in Anuradhapura, Sri Lanka 150 ?
14-19 June 1996 hostage taking in Budennovsk, Russia, and two failed rescue attempts 143 435
3 Aug 1990 armed attack at two mosques in Kathankudy, Sri Lanka 140 70
3 Feb 2007 truck bombing in marketplace in Baghdad, Iraq 137 334
28 Feb 2005 car bombing outside medical clinic in Hilla, Iraq 135 130
2 Oct 1990 crash of hijacked PRC airliner in Guangzhou, PRC 132 49
13 Sep 1999 bombing of apartment building in Moscow, Russia 130 150
18 Apr 1987 roadway ambush near Alut Oya, Sri Lanka 127 64
23 Nov 1996 crash of hijacked Ethiopian Air flight off Comoros 127 48
29 Aug 2003 car bombing outside mosque in Najaf, Iraq 125 500
5 Jan 2006 bombings in Karbala, Ramadi, and Baghdad, Iraq 124 203
13 Aug 1990 armed attack at mosque in Eravur, Sri Lanka 122 79
27 Feb 2004 bombing and fire on ferry near Manila, Philippines 118 9
29 Nov 1987 mid-air bombing of Korean Air flight near Burma 115 0
23 Sep 1983 crash of Gulf Air flight following mid-air bombing over the UAE 112 0
27 Nov 1989 mid-air bombing of Avianca flight in Bogota, Columbia 110 ?
1 Feb 2004 two suicide bombings of political party offices in Irbil, Iraq 109 240
21 Apr 1987 bombing of bus depot in Columbo, Sri Lanka 106 295
22 Sep 1993 crash of airliner struck by missile in Sukhumi, Georgia 106 26
24 Jun 2004 multiple bombings and armed attacks in several cities in Iraq 103 324
16 Oct 2006 suicide bombing of military convoy near Habarana, Sri Lanka 103 150
11 Jan 1998 attack on movie theater and mosque at Sidi Hamed, Algeria 103 70
4-10 Jul 2007 hostage taking and army storming of mosque in Islamabad, Pakistan 102 ?
22 Jan 2007 multiple bombings and mortar attack on marketplaces in Baghdad and Baquba, Iraq 101 186
13 Dec 1921 bombing of Bolgard palace in Bessarabia (modern Moldova) 100 ?
18 May 1973 mid-air bombing of Aeroflot airliner, Siberia 100 0
4 Dec 1977 crash of hijacked Malaysian airliner near Malaysia 100 0

[sup-rbeast]

OK...now care to go back over the past 1500 years and look at the wrongs propagated by Christians ? Some folks have a long memory. Just because it didn't happen yesterday doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Gotch]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK...now care to go back over the past 1500 years and look at the wrongs propagated by Christians ? Some folks have a long memory. Just because it didn't happen yesterday doesn't mean it didn't happen. </div></div>

Noone remembers events that took place 1,500 years ago. They can be influenced by the history or the purported history of these events. Good example here would be the crusades.

Muslims and some Christians use the purported history of this event to cast a negative light upon medieval Christians when in fact nearly every historian familiar with the details of the crusades will tell you that the Muslims were not only the aggressors but that the Christians had absolutely no choice but to react or else be over-run and killed or converted at the tip of a sword.

So are we going to count all the deaths of the crusades against the Muslims?

Anyway, best estimate on the inquisition are, Medieval Inquisition about 2,250 deaths, and Spanish Inquisition about 2,000 deaths.

Not trying to belittle these numbers but it only took a few hours for a group of hate filled Muslims to nearly triple the total that took the Inquisitors several centuries to accumulate.

Again though, take the RCC out of it and see how many deaths Christian radicals or any Christians can be blamed for. Remember the RCC was a political entity and actually accounted for less deaths during their rein as a powerful political entity than nearly any other major political entity of the time.

I'm in no danger of having a 13th century Inquisitor murder me, I am however in danger of being killed by a Muslim terrorist, maybe not a high risk, but a risk none the same.

Again I challenge you to take the political entity of the RCC out of the equation and then see what the picture looks like. It's already completely one-side. Without the RCC it is a total landslide of evil for the other side.

[sup-rbeast]

You can twist numbers and make all the excuses you like...but there is no difference.